Wow, Amy. I didn’t intend to listen to this, since I walked away from Christianity and its exclusivity, completely adrift from my spiritual anchor, only to be released into a nature-based spirituality, for which I’m thankful because it feels like coming home. But I would like to heal my trauma from “the Word,” which I continue to realize is riddled with the wrong English words, which are used as weapons against our fellow kin, both human and non-human. I have a lot of thoughts after listening to this which I need to process, and intend to spend some time doing. I might be back with more after that, but meanwhile, I didn’t want to let a thank you to you and Lindsay for this conversation, which has already impacted my spiritual journey in a way I can’t really put into words yet, go unsaid.
Thank you so much for taking the time to reach out Chris, it means a lot! I continue to find myself grappling with the discordance between what Jesus calls us to do versus what the Church calls us to do. I would love to continue the conversation once you've had time and space to process.
“At what moment was Christianity stripped from the heartbeat of the world?” I have yet to listen to the full conversation between the two of you, Amy, but this question has been lingering in my mind for the last week. I had a conversation recently with a friend who said something along the lines of prioritizing relationship to Jesus and all other relationships being unimportant in that light, and the statement floored me because I very much experience the story of the living Christ as a doorway into FULL connection with all life and all relationship. The fact that adherents to Christian creed easily say otherwise means there's been a colossal mix-up somewhere along the line. Thankful for you investing the time into conversation around the restoration of interconnected relationship.
Thanks Jan! I love that this question has been floating between your neurons this week. I agree, and suspect Jesus would also agree that the way we show our love for the creator is by loving creation through reciprocal relationship. Though, I also think you could come at it the other way, where your love of Jesus led you to a love of creation. I can’t find a way they could be separate though.
I'm so happy to find this conversation! Hearing people talk animism makes my heart sing. I connect at SO many places with each of you! Thanks, Amy, for introducing us to Lindsay. And Lindsay, that opening question nags a lot at me too: Where did my root people lose their connection to the sacred Earth? I wrote a memoir about becoming an animist, Kissed by a Fox, and it's partly a cultural memoir too, exploring that question: What happened? My initial response is that empire happened. When people decide that some are better than others and deserve to be on the top or on the bottom, and they arrange their societies to function that way, they lose their connection to each other AND to the land. And in Jesus's part of the world, they arranged themselves into empire very very early, maybe 2000 years before his time. So those attitudes came to pervade the Jesus movement too, and they got kind of baked in when Christianity took over the Roman Empire around Augustine's time. I've been fascinated by Pelagius for a long time—a philosopher like Augustine, but he argued against Augustine that it is NOT inevitable for human beings to sin. He had more faith in us! It is said that he had Celtic roots, so he might have come from a people who were more fringe to empire and preserved more heart connection with Earth. But when the two of them went head to head, Pelagius lost and Augustine's dim view of us ruled (because empire!). And Pelagius got condemned as a heretic. I think about that a lot; I put that story in Kissed by a Fox. So anyway, I would love to have more conversation with each of you. Thanks again for this rich hour!
Thanks Priscilla! I used to think of Animism and Christianity as mutually exclusive, so this beautiful way they can and should weave together. And yes, as you said, we all have ancestors who carried that deep knowing of the life of the world they were embedded in. And yes, it is certainly no accident that the voices that are “heretical” are the ones that are most threatening to empire.
Wow, that was really powerful and inspired such hope in me that Christianity really can be a force for healing, connection and true love. I am beginning to see many of the Christian faith who are living and practicing the teachings of Jesus rather than the dogma of religion and it is healing my own relationship with the concept of Christianity. Thank you from an agnostic animist.
Thanks for taking the time and having the open mind to check it out. I have to say I REALLY resisted going back to Christianity because of that vast gap between Christ and many Christians. If you’re interested in exploring wild Christianity more, I can't recommend Martin Shaw's Substack enough (though I think he only puts out paid articles).
Thanks for the recommendation. That gap is what sustained my anger and suspicion about the Christian religion for a very long time but you and all those who live and practice your Christian faith so closely aligned with the teachings of Christ have made such a big difference to me personally and I'm sure to others (including the rest of our non-human kin).
Wow, Amy. I didn’t intend to listen to this, since I walked away from Christianity and its exclusivity, completely adrift from my spiritual anchor, only to be released into a nature-based spirituality, for which I’m thankful because it feels like coming home. But I would like to heal my trauma from “the Word,” which I continue to realize is riddled with the wrong English words, which are used as weapons against our fellow kin, both human and non-human. I have a lot of thoughts after listening to this which I need to process, and intend to spend some time doing. I might be back with more after that, but meanwhile, I didn’t want to let a thank you to you and Lindsay for this conversation, which has already impacted my spiritual journey in a way I can’t really put into words yet, go unsaid.
Thank you so much for taking the time to reach out Chris, it means a lot! I continue to find myself grappling with the discordance between what Jesus calls us to do versus what the Church calls us to do. I would love to continue the conversation once you've had time and space to process.
“At what moment was Christianity stripped from the heartbeat of the world?” I have yet to listen to the full conversation between the two of you, Amy, but this question has been lingering in my mind for the last week. I had a conversation recently with a friend who said something along the lines of prioritizing relationship to Jesus and all other relationships being unimportant in that light, and the statement floored me because I very much experience the story of the living Christ as a doorway into FULL connection with all life and all relationship. The fact that adherents to Christian creed easily say otherwise means there's been a colossal mix-up somewhere along the line. Thankful for you investing the time into conversation around the restoration of interconnected relationship.
Thanks Jan! I love that this question has been floating between your neurons this week. I agree, and suspect Jesus would also agree that the way we show our love for the creator is by loving creation through reciprocal relationship. Though, I also think you could come at it the other way, where your love of Jesus led you to a love of creation. I can’t find a way they could be separate though.
I'm so happy to find this conversation! Hearing people talk animism makes my heart sing. I connect at SO many places with each of you! Thanks, Amy, for introducing us to Lindsay. And Lindsay, that opening question nags a lot at me too: Where did my root people lose their connection to the sacred Earth? I wrote a memoir about becoming an animist, Kissed by a Fox, and it's partly a cultural memoir too, exploring that question: What happened? My initial response is that empire happened. When people decide that some are better than others and deserve to be on the top or on the bottom, and they arrange their societies to function that way, they lose their connection to each other AND to the land. And in Jesus's part of the world, they arranged themselves into empire very very early, maybe 2000 years before his time. So those attitudes came to pervade the Jesus movement too, and they got kind of baked in when Christianity took over the Roman Empire around Augustine's time. I've been fascinated by Pelagius for a long time—a philosopher like Augustine, but he argued against Augustine that it is NOT inevitable for human beings to sin. He had more faith in us! It is said that he had Celtic roots, so he might have come from a people who were more fringe to empire and preserved more heart connection with Earth. But when the two of them went head to head, Pelagius lost and Augustine's dim view of us ruled (because empire!). And Pelagius got condemned as a heretic. I think about that a lot; I put that story in Kissed by a Fox. So anyway, I would love to have more conversation with each of you. Thanks again for this rich hour!
Thanks Priscilla! I used to think of Animism and Christianity as mutually exclusive, so this beautiful way they can and should weave together. And yes, as you said, we all have ancestors who carried that deep knowing of the life of the world they were embedded in. And yes, it is certainly no accident that the voices that are “heretical” are the ones that are most threatening to empire.
Wow, that was really powerful and inspired such hope in me that Christianity really can be a force for healing, connection and true love. I am beginning to see many of the Christian faith who are living and practicing the teachings of Jesus rather than the dogma of religion and it is healing my own relationship with the concept of Christianity. Thank you from an agnostic animist.
Thanks for taking the time and having the open mind to check it out. I have to say I REALLY resisted going back to Christianity because of that vast gap between Christ and many Christians. If you’re interested in exploring wild Christianity more, I can't recommend Martin Shaw's Substack enough (though I think he only puts out paid articles).
Thanks for the recommendation. That gap is what sustained my anger and suspicion about the Christian religion for a very long time but you and all those who live and practice your Christian faith so closely aligned with the teachings of Christ have made such a big difference to me personally and I'm sure to others (including the rest of our non-human kin).